Hmm… I don’t disagree completely with this post, I think it points out a lot of true things. However, I’m not sure I agree it encapsulates everything men want. My take is that men want respect most of all, the highest form of acknowledgment of fulfilling your manhood (being a “good boy”) is to be respected by a woman.
I think a woman’s unwillingness to do that, if a man has committed his life to you, is a form of emotional abuse. It reminds me of distant fathers who never give approval to their sons, it creates an unhealthy, lifelong complex in children.
Society at large, doesn’t respect men. Which is ultimately killing the drive for them to be what is necessary for societal prosperity. Also the economic factors, and the facts you alluded to that women are “talked out of” what they really feel.
Hi Blayne, I think you’re right. Thanks so much for these thoughts as you’re really helping me to see better into this. I think we’re talking about two sides of the same coin. I called it acknowledgment, but respect works too. I guess I’m talking about what men are trying to actively offer - usefulness, in order to earn respect. It seems to me that men get painted with an attitude of presuming automatic respect, often undeservedly. Not that there aren’t plenty of oafish men like this around. But I feel that our contributions, or at least our good intentions often go unseen, unrecognised, disrespected. I think that the popular picture of patriarchal entitlement is a distortion of true male purpose and it’s something I’m seeking to question and deconstruct to some degree. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again.
Hey Matthew, thank you so much for these excellent thoughts. I think I’ll edit my post to add in a consideration of the male contribution to baby-making. But, briefly, the thinking goes that, with the gap of time between fertilisation and birth, it’s not immediately obvious that sex makes babies. It was actually quite a big leap of insight for early humans to realise this. And while our ancestors did suss this pretty much from the start, our basic biological drives were already in place millions of years before Homo Sapiens emerged, or even primates emerged. So at a primal level, a part of us is still in thrall to The Great Mother. But this is all a very layered thing, with many later tweaks and qualifiers adding to the mix as time has gone on. There’s also a practical consideration of supply and demand with sperm, making eggs and wombs infinitely more valuable than the male contribution. The nurturant value that women bring all stem from these structural and functional qualities that have shaped us in our co-evolution. It’s pretty mind blowing to me. Ultimately, I feel we should all try and live with a lot more awareness and respect for the effects of deep time and the fact that so much of what we do is animalistic and simply dressed up and rationalised as human. To me, recognising the incredibly cooperative cocktail recipe that we have evolved into only makes life more beautiful and awesome. Our greatest challenge now, as I see it, is squaring all of what we are with what the industrial and digital revolutions ask of us. Thanks again. It really helps to receive input like this.
Hi. I needed to hear this. You’re right to say what you say and I am definitely generalising in the face of millennia of male atrocity. Men have caused so much pain that it has become the expectation of my sex. But that is why I’m writing this; to speak for the overlooked vast majority of men who are not the way you describe. That much is true. Please take some heart from that and don’t give up on all of us. That said ,the pain that men cause is so grievous, it cannot be ignored and I need to address it or stop writing now. So thank you for speaking out. And for not totally unleashing on me too, which must have been tempting. Your points land fair and square. I hear you and take what you say seriously. All the best to you and thank you for this important challenge. Piers
Hi Katerina, I’m so grateful and heartened by your considered comments here. Sure makes a difference to hear back from the Substack void! In fact you made my day. Thank you so much.
And yes, it’s a delicate area for me to try and unpack, and difficult to explore with all the many sensitivities and transgenerational damage across the culture. Despite all the rancour and ill will, I’m hoping to kindle a little hope and generosity. Just like your substack, it’s a labour of love, an attempt to skim a small stone of love into the pool and, perhaps create a few more positive ripples.
As you say, finding complementary ways to connect with each other must be the answer, so we’re both doing important work! I also appreciate your posts and they give me inspiration and pause to reflect and learn. Keep going and who knows, maybe we’ll make a difference!
Thank you for your kind answer. I'm glad it made a difference in your day! I understand how challenging it can be to write from a vulnerable place, especially in the current context where seemingly meaningless articles are receiving a lot of attention and popularity.
I also encourage you to continue writing and putting yourself out there. I look forward to reading your perspective.
I'm delighted that my work inspires you; it also comforts me to know that people value it as a labor of love as they are also writing from this place.
I didn't know about Kasia Urbaniak, but I have googled her, and I like what I see.
I'll go into her work and see what is there for me.
Thank you for the suggestion! Have a lovely contemplative week! :) All the best!
My boyfriend early on in our relationship surprised me with coffee after I worked a night shift and I was really exhausted and worn out. It made me feel so touched (and I was so sleep deprived lol) that I started tearing up and profusely thanked him for how much his support meant to me. Ever since then he LOVES to get me coffee or tea. I always make sure to thank him a bunch and for his support in general and he beams. “You’re the best I love how well you support me.” I love how he looks when he feels all proud of himself for making my day better so I always try and thank him whenever possible for all the little things he does. I think it’s a big part of why we work so well together. I can just tell he thrives on being appreciated.
Hey that’s beautiful! Thanks so much for sharing. I’m so pleased at this resonance. Hope he appreciates you the same way too and all the best for your future together
I really enjoyed your post, as well as the way you acknowledged both men and women's struggles, biology, cultural-economic-shaped behaviors and contexts. Awesome job!
You've made some insightful points about men's and women's archetypes, which are especially important in today's society, where discussing men and women without perpetuating stereotypes is often frowned upon or even taboo, for the right reasons. However, at the same time, we must be able to talk about what we hold in our experience and the way reality is presented.
Understanding that both men and women can be good people, and that both can exhibit toxic and dysfunctional, narcissistic, and other disorders in equal measure, I believe it is true that men have intentionally sought to maintain power, causing the most harm to women.
Our religious landscape, along with cultural and socioeconomic factors, has long shaped our current interactions with one another.
The fear of being direct with men has deep transgenerational roots; men also fear rejection and a lack of usefulness for women for the same reason.
In the current context, I believe that masculinizing women, who primarily embody masculine energies such as "doing," providing, and body language, is a way to gain over the lost and desired power.
This context also serves to integrate the feminine aspects in men, such as "being" and relaxation, enabling them to connect with their previously suppressed emotional and nurturing sides.
This process can and will transform our interactions based on how we already feel around us, form relationships and collaboration, and hopefully harmonize our energies.
I think we can achieve gender and energy freedom if we discover complementary ways to connect with one another. We should write, create, initiate dialogue, and never engage in competition with each other.
Our differences and sameness in some ways, despite our reluctance to acknowledge them, are what sustain our species' existence and growth.
I personally need, respect, love and adore men; I appreciate the hard, dirty work that requires a type of strength that most men possess; and I appreciate the incredible things they can build and create. At the same time, I enjoy how being a woman feels.
I've been fortunate to recognize and contain my femininity and masculinity after unlearning and relearning the world around me, how to feel in my own body and mind, and acknowledging its limitations and natural power.
Thank you for writing about this, as you can see, I was waiting for this topic to be brought up :)!
Hi Piers, a fine text. I believe you are on to something here, and I will follow you, although I think maybe you are oversimplyfying some of the issues. Some cultures believed for instance, that females provided nothing but their wombs as vessels for a mans child. I further believe the "obsession" with a womans orgasm is of relatively recent origins.
I belive that the need to be "a good boy/man/husband" and to be judged as such by a woman, is unhealthy, not conducive to a healthy relationship, and not very sexy. ("No more mister nice guy" by Rober Glover addresses this.)
I recommend reading "Male, Female: The Evolution of Human Sex Differences", by David Geary and "Is there anything good about men" by Roy Baumeister. (And since we the same interrest in providing understanding for each others (male/female) innate differences to provide better cooperation, I would like you to read my substack.)
Thanks Ole. And yes, generalisations aplenty! But it can’t be helped, right? But I am trying to write in the face of societal conclusions that stem from other generalisations that I believe focus too heavily on misrepresentations of men and women and take us all to a dark and unproductive place. I have faith in looking at our essential essence as human beings and seeing the good therein, the drives within men and women which are there to help and support us to get somewhere better, if we give them a chance. I have read the books you mention and take your point. But I’m not arguing for men to be people pleasing machines. My talk of being a ‘good boy’ is a provocation intended to reveal the male vulnerability beneath our gruff exterior masks. It’s as much a poke at men to let down their guard as it is to give women a different perspective. Thanks again. I’ll certainly follow you and read your work with interest.
I will say, I've always felt a bit of a disconnect with the "can create life" thing, because without sperm, she can't create life. That seems inherently a group effort.
But the sweetness and caring of a woman, especially to her children, is worth more than anything, and so I think we leave out at our peril that women can't create life any more than men can, but they can sure as hell nurture it!
Also, it would be helpful to have that articulation, but it could be said that that's a masculine thing. I'm not advocating for guessing games, but at the same time, I think a woman telling you what she wants directly and explicitly would kind of pop the bubble.
That said, the horse-riding analogy seems to lay out a metaphor for a way that can be acquired.
Gee, you sound like my husband. I stood there beaming at our baby. “Look what I made!” And the response is, the seed did all the work. If life begins at conception then congratulations you get to cum and your right as rain. Sorry to take it out on you but you will never have any idea what it is like to create life. Even after having a baby, women conveniently forget. Calling it a group effort is such a devaluation of the entire body shattering experience of pregnancy, birth and nourishing an infant. Women die giving birth, it takes 7 years for our bodies to return entirely to normal. You hand me the salt and I’ll make a feast, what a brilliant group effort! Women add this very value so can I get called a good girl for doing such a great job?.. Obviously I’m not over it, also pregnant again and I can’t sleep 😂
Hi. Are you addressing me or Matthew’s comment above? I completely agree with you regarding the female burden of pregnancy, birth and nursing through infancy. Anyone that thinks otherwise would have to be pretty crazy. Your husband was surely joking, no? I certainly hope so. And I hope he’s busting a gut to support you through your new pregnancy too, as well as showing his appreciation for your sacrifice. That’s where he gets to play his part in the team. If you’re getting anything less, you make sure you’re clear with him about that! Many congratulations and here’s to the beautiful new life you’re cooking up 🥰
You need to tell the Taliban about all of your wonderful ideas, dude.
They beat the shit out of their 9 year old wives after telling them they can't go to school.
Then tell the young boys across the United States who make AI porn of their female classmates.
Useful, indeed.
Men are so delusional and incapable of self-awareness that nothing you say should be taken seriously. You're all literally disconnected from history and reality that everything should be discarded.
Do you want me to give you a list of historical events and current situations that disprove every single thing you claim?
Thanks for that tugordie. Kat makes some good points which I need to address. But it did get me down, as I’m aiming to share good things and definitely not stoke grievances, knowing how delicate this area is. So your note is much appreciated and balanced me out some
I can tell that you have been hurt, Kat, hurt deeply, by men. (Your father perhaps, did you know him?An exhusband? A brother, an uncle?) Abuse like that will mark you for life if you let it. I feel really sorry for you.
I do hope venting here, and elsewhere, helps your healing process in some way. I hope you do read my substack (please, read my substack, so few do), it will provide plenty of material for you to comment on. And you will love the titles of the first entries; "Worthless men".
You, Kat, are a brave and bold survivor of the Patriarchy, a true warrior, I applaud your efforts. I, and all men with me, stand corrected. We shall henceforth retire to our basement dwellings, and let you fill the void we leave with peace and womanly love, kindness and caring.
Hmm… I don’t disagree completely with this post, I think it points out a lot of true things. However, I’m not sure I agree it encapsulates everything men want. My take is that men want respect most of all, the highest form of acknowledgment of fulfilling your manhood (being a “good boy”) is to be respected by a woman.
I think a woman’s unwillingness to do that, if a man has committed his life to you, is a form of emotional abuse. It reminds me of distant fathers who never give approval to their sons, it creates an unhealthy, lifelong complex in children.
Society at large, doesn’t respect men. Which is ultimately killing the drive for them to be what is necessary for societal prosperity. Also the economic factors, and the facts you alluded to that women are “talked out of” what they really feel.
Hi Blayne, I think you’re right. Thanks so much for these thoughts as you’re really helping me to see better into this. I think we’re talking about two sides of the same coin. I called it acknowledgment, but respect works too. I guess I’m talking about what men are trying to actively offer - usefulness, in order to earn respect. It seems to me that men get painted with an attitude of presuming automatic respect, often undeservedly. Not that there aren’t plenty of oafish men like this around. But I feel that our contributions, or at least our good intentions often go unseen, unrecognised, disrespected. I think that the popular picture of patriarchal entitlement is a distortion of true male purpose and it’s something I’m seeking to question and deconstruct to some degree. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again.
Hey Matthew, thank you so much for these excellent thoughts. I think I’ll edit my post to add in a consideration of the male contribution to baby-making. But, briefly, the thinking goes that, with the gap of time between fertilisation and birth, it’s not immediately obvious that sex makes babies. It was actually quite a big leap of insight for early humans to realise this. And while our ancestors did suss this pretty much from the start, our basic biological drives were already in place millions of years before Homo Sapiens emerged, or even primates emerged. So at a primal level, a part of us is still in thrall to The Great Mother. But this is all a very layered thing, with many later tweaks and qualifiers adding to the mix as time has gone on. There’s also a practical consideration of supply and demand with sperm, making eggs and wombs infinitely more valuable than the male contribution. The nurturant value that women bring all stem from these structural and functional qualities that have shaped us in our co-evolution. It’s pretty mind blowing to me. Ultimately, I feel we should all try and live with a lot more awareness and respect for the effects of deep time and the fact that so much of what we do is animalistic and simply dressed up and rationalised as human. To me, recognising the incredibly cooperative cocktail recipe that we have evolved into only makes life more beautiful and awesome. Our greatest challenge now, as I see it, is squaring all of what we are with what the industrial and digital revolutions ask of us. Thanks again. It really helps to receive input like this.
Hi. I needed to hear this. You’re right to say what you say and I am definitely generalising in the face of millennia of male atrocity. Men have caused so much pain that it has become the expectation of my sex. But that is why I’m writing this; to speak for the overlooked vast majority of men who are not the way you describe. That much is true. Please take some heart from that and don’t give up on all of us. That said ,the pain that men cause is so grievous, it cannot be ignored and I need to address it or stop writing now. So thank you for speaking out. And for not totally unleashing on me too, which must have been tempting. Your points land fair and square. I hear you and take what you say seriously. All the best to you and thank you for this important challenge. Piers
Hi Katerina, I’m so grateful and heartened by your considered comments here. Sure makes a difference to hear back from the Substack void! In fact you made my day. Thank you so much.
And yes, it’s a delicate area for me to try and unpack, and difficult to explore with all the many sensitivities and transgenerational damage across the culture. Despite all the rancour and ill will, I’m hoping to kindle a little hope and generosity. Just like your substack, it’s a labour of love, an attempt to skim a small stone of love into the pool and, perhaps create a few more positive ripples.
As you say, finding complementary ways to connect with each other must be the answer, so we’re both doing important work! I also appreciate your posts and they give me inspiration and pause to reflect and learn. Keep going and who knows, maybe we’ll make a difference!
All the best and thanks again.
Piers
Regarding the fear of being direct with men, are you aware of the work of Kasia Urbaniak? If not, check her out.
Thank you for your kind answer. I'm glad it made a difference in your day! I understand how challenging it can be to write from a vulnerable place, especially in the current context where seemingly meaningless articles are receiving a lot of attention and popularity.
I also encourage you to continue writing and putting yourself out there. I look forward to reading your perspective.
I'm delighted that my work inspires you; it also comforts me to know that people value it as a labor of love as they are also writing from this place.
I didn't know about Kasia Urbaniak, but I have googled her, and I like what I see.
I'll go into her work and see what is there for me.
Thank you for the suggestion! Have a lovely contemplative week! :) All the best!
My boyfriend early on in our relationship surprised me with coffee after I worked a night shift and I was really exhausted and worn out. It made me feel so touched (and I was so sleep deprived lol) that I started tearing up and profusely thanked him for how much his support meant to me. Ever since then he LOVES to get me coffee or tea. I always make sure to thank him a bunch and for his support in general and he beams. “You’re the best I love how well you support me.” I love how he looks when he feels all proud of himself for making my day better so I always try and thank him whenever possible for all the little things he does. I think it’s a big part of why we work so well together. I can just tell he thrives on being appreciated.
Hey that’s beautiful! Thanks so much for sharing. I’m so pleased at this resonance. Hope he appreciates you the same way too and all the best for your future together
My job is done “wuff wuff” , down boy
I appreciated reading this, it's an interesting perspective and I found it very thought-provoking. Thank you :)
Thank you for this. It resonates deeply, helps me feel seen, and gives me a resource to explore with future partners.
Good stuff.
I really enjoyed your post, as well as the way you acknowledged both men and women's struggles, biology, cultural-economic-shaped behaviors and contexts. Awesome job!
You've made some insightful points about men's and women's archetypes, which are especially important in today's society, where discussing men and women without perpetuating stereotypes is often frowned upon or even taboo, for the right reasons. However, at the same time, we must be able to talk about what we hold in our experience and the way reality is presented.
Understanding that both men and women can be good people, and that both can exhibit toxic and dysfunctional, narcissistic, and other disorders in equal measure, I believe it is true that men have intentionally sought to maintain power, causing the most harm to women.
Our religious landscape, along with cultural and socioeconomic factors, has long shaped our current interactions with one another.
The fear of being direct with men has deep transgenerational roots; men also fear rejection and a lack of usefulness for women for the same reason.
In the current context, I believe that masculinizing women, who primarily embody masculine energies such as "doing," providing, and body language, is a way to gain over the lost and desired power.
This context also serves to integrate the feminine aspects in men, such as "being" and relaxation, enabling them to connect with their previously suppressed emotional and nurturing sides.
This process can and will transform our interactions based on how we already feel around us, form relationships and collaboration, and hopefully harmonize our energies.
I think we can achieve gender and energy freedom if we discover complementary ways to connect with one another. We should write, create, initiate dialogue, and never engage in competition with each other.
Our differences and sameness in some ways, despite our reluctance to acknowledge them, are what sustain our species' existence and growth.
I personally need, respect, love and adore men; I appreciate the hard, dirty work that requires a type of strength that most men possess; and I appreciate the incredible things they can build and create. At the same time, I enjoy how being a woman feels.
I've been fortunate to recognize and contain my femininity and masculinity after unlearning and relearning the world around me, how to feel in my own body and mind, and acknowledging its limitations and natural power.
Thank you for writing about this, as you can see, I was waiting for this topic to be brought up :)!
Thank you! I love this. It explains a lot.
Hi Piers, a fine text. I believe you are on to something here, and I will follow you, although I think maybe you are oversimplyfying some of the issues. Some cultures believed for instance, that females provided nothing but their wombs as vessels for a mans child. I further believe the "obsession" with a womans orgasm is of relatively recent origins.
I belive that the need to be "a good boy/man/husband" and to be judged as such by a woman, is unhealthy, not conducive to a healthy relationship, and not very sexy. ("No more mister nice guy" by Rober Glover addresses this.)
I recommend reading "Male, Female: The Evolution of Human Sex Differences", by David Geary and "Is there anything good about men" by Roy Baumeister. (And since we the same interrest in providing understanding for each others (male/female) innate differences to provide better cooperation, I would like you to read my substack.)
Anyway, keep it up, good work!
Thanks Ole. And yes, generalisations aplenty! But it can’t be helped, right? But I am trying to write in the face of societal conclusions that stem from other generalisations that I believe focus too heavily on misrepresentations of men and women and take us all to a dark and unproductive place. I have faith in looking at our essential essence as human beings and seeing the good therein, the drives within men and women which are there to help and support us to get somewhere better, if we give them a chance. I have read the books you mention and take your point. But I’m not arguing for men to be people pleasing machines. My talk of being a ‘good boy’ is a provocation intended to reveal the male vulnerability beneath our gruff exterior masks. It’s as much a poke at men to let down their guard as it is to give women a different perspective. Thanks again. I’ll certainly follow you and read your work with interest.
Very sweet.
I will say, I've always felt a bit of a disconnect with the "can create life" thing, because without sperm, she can't create life. That seems inherently a group effort.
But the sweetness and caring of a woman, especially to her children, is worth more than anything, and so I think we leave out at our peril that women can't create life any more than men can, but they can sure as hell nurture it!
Also, it would be helpful to have that articulation, but it could be said that that's a masculine thing. I'm not advocating for guessing games, but at the same time, I think a woman telling you what she wants directly and explicitly would kind of pop the bubble.
That said, the horse-riding analogy seems to lay out a metaphor for a way that can be acquired.
Gee, you sound like my husband. I stood there beaming at our baby. “Look what I made!” And the response is, the seed did all the work. If life begins at conception then congratulations you get to cum and your right as rain. Sorry to take it out on you but you will never have any idea what it is like to create life. Even after having a baby, women conveniently forget. Calling it a group effort is such a devaluation of the entire body shattering experience of pregnancy, birth and nourishing an infant. Women die giving birth, it takes 7 years for our bodies to return entirely to normal. You hand me the salt and I’ll make a feast, what a brilliant group effort! Women add this very value so can I get called a good girl for doing such a great job?.. Obviously I’m not over it, also pregnant again and I can’t sleep 😂
Hi. Are you addressing me or Matthew’s comment above? I completely agree with you regarding the female burden of pregnancy, birth and nursing through infancy. Anyone that thinks otherwise would have to be pretty crazy. Your husband was surely joking, no? I certainly hope so. And I hope he’s busting a gut to support you through your new pregnancy too, as well as showing his appreciation for your sacrifice. That’s where he gets to play his part in the team. If you’re getting anything less, you make sure you’re clear with him about that! Many congratulations and here’s to the beautiful new life you’re cooking up 🥰
You need to tell the Taliban about all of your wonderful ideas, dude.
They beat the shit out of their 9 year old wives after telling them they can't go to school.
Then tell the young boys across the United States who make AI porn of their female classmates.
Useful, indeed.
Men are so delusional and incapable of self-awareness that nothing you say should be taken seriously. You're all literally disconnected from history and reality that everything should be discarded.
Do you want me to give you a list of historical events and current situations that disprove every single thing you claim?
Just stick with video games. This is sad.
LMAO not surprised to see Kat here. She is (obviously) deranged and spews this kind of shit all over substack. Don't let her get you down Piers
Thanks for that tugordie. Kat makes some good points which I need to address. But it did get me down, as I’m aiming to share good things and definitely not stoke grievances, knowing how delicate this area is. So your note is much appreciated and balanced me out some
I can tell that you have been hurt, Kat, hurt deeply, by men. (Your father perhaps, did you know him?An exhusband? A brother, an uncle?) Abuse like that will mark you for life if you let it. I feel really sorry for you.
I do hope venting here, and elsewhere, helps your healing process in some way. I hope you do read my substack (please, read my substack, so few do), it will provide plenty of material for you to comment on. And you will love the titles of the first entries; "Worthless men".
You, Kat, are a brave and bold survivor of the Patriarchy, a true warrior, I applaud your efforts. I, and all men with me, stand corrected. We shall henceforth retire to our basement dwellings, and let you fill the void we leave with peace and womanly love, kindness and caring.